Welcome Linden Hudson of ZZ Top Fame!

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Linden Odell Hudson, Oct 8, 2021.

  1. pool_of_tears

    pool_of_tears Searching For Simplicity

    Location:
    Eastern Iowa
    After all I’ve been reading, and if all is true, I’ve a lot less respect for Billy. Credit ought to be given where credit is due, otherwise someone gets their head on a ten foot pole! A management decision?!
     
  2. Linden Odell Hudson

    Linden Odell Hudson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    sugar land texas
    Love the question. Well I never worked with the band "point blank" but (for some reason) I knew Rusty Burns (Point Blank guitarist). I knew he was a killer guitarist, so one day (at Sugar Hill Studios where I was the repair engineer) I hired Rusty to do an overdub on one of my songs (a demo). He brought a little amp and I thought it wouldn't kick ass enough but he showed me how badass the amp was (I think the amp was called a bandit). I had him stand in the control room next to me and we put his amp out in the big room pointing into the open space. I played the track once for him to listen to and map in his head. He proceeded to do the first take and he turned into a guitar demon, I stood with my mouth open. Then he said "would you roll it back, I can do it again." I said "hey, you took my breath away, I like it a lot, we're through". You can hear the demo with Rusty's way good guitar lead at the link below:

    INDIE MUSIC - LINDEN HUDSON & RUSTY BURNS - "Seventeen" - YouTube

    It was just a simple tune that I wrote and did the vocals and instruments on (Rusty on lead). It uses a cheesy little drum machine (it was convenient, after all it's only a demo)
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2021
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  3. Linden Odell Hudson

    Linden Odell Hudson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    sugar land texas
    No, the Top is the Top. Deep down Im a fan (at least of Eliminator). Peace. Thanks.
     
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  4. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    I blame you. After reading this thread I got out my vinyl copy of Eliminator from the latest box set . A beautiful cut and slab of vinyl. Great album, but I couldn’t take my focus off of the drum machine.;)
     
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  5. Linden Odell Hudson

    Linden Odell Hudson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    sugar land texas
    Fair enough.
     
  6. clhboa

    clhboa Forum Resident

    Thanks! Cool demo and yes, Rusty tears it up.
     
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  7. Linden Odell Hudson

    Linden Odell Hudson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    sugar land texas
    RATEYOURMUSIC DOT COM: Band statement: "We still sometimes wonder what exactly did transpire to make those sessions dramatically different," Billy Gibbons mused. "I suppose it might have been a return to playing together as a band in the studio as we did onstage. "Dusty Hill, too, attributed Eliminator's success to the musicians "playing close to each other" in Steven Rosen's 1986 interview with the band. Subsequent accounts, however, would paint a markedly different picture of the Eliminator sessions.

    (Example of the bands position on this topic, of course this stance was a management decision, right?)
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2021
  8. Linden Odell Hudson

    Linden Odell Hudson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    sugar land texas
    Rusty is one of the absolute best guitarists Ive ever rolled tape on.
     
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  9. DTK

    DTK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    Aha, thank you Linden. My copy of Rio Grande Mud is an 80s repress, that's why I didn't know.
     
  10. jricc

    jricc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Jersey Shore
    Welcome to the forum Linden!
     
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  11. JulesRules

    JulesRules Operational, partially functional

    Location:
    Germany
    Hate to correct you but here is a 1972 pressing of Rio Grande Mud, image stolen from Discogs :)
    [​IMG]
    Oddly enough the sleeve doesn't credit Gibbons at all but the label does:
    [​IMG]
    For completeness' sake two 7" images
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
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  12. Linden Odell Hudson

    Linden Odell Hudson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    sugar land texas
    Ok, fair enough. All I can do is go listen to Kenny's interview again and take his word. But, I know Wikipedia is not a real source, but it says they were not give credit for years. I'm looking into it. However, it's known that there was no money received for a long time if ever, Kenny was pissed about this when I interviewed him in the eighties. Anyone out there who has an early pressing (not a re release) please help us verify this.

    Here's a quote from Lyrics Dot Com: "Francine" is a song recorded by the American rock band ZZ Top from their album Rio Grande Mud, released in 1971. "Francine" gave ZZ Top their first bona fide hit reaching #69 on the Billboard charts. It is the only single released from the Rio Grande Mud album. Dusty Hill also recorded a Spanish sung version as well, though Gibbons frequently handles the vocals on stage. Various official ZZ Top releases throughout the years, beginning in 1972, have used the alternative spelling "Francene", especially on the various 45 releases both within and outside the United States. The song was actually written by Steve Perron and Kenny Cordray. They were not given credit for many years, and they received little or no royalties for decades. (at: ZZ Top - Francine Lyrics | Lyrics.com )

    The site: ZZ Top – PowerPop… An Eclectic Collection of Pop Culture
    Also says they got no credit.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2021
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  13. Linden Odell Hudson

    Linden Odell Hudson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    sugar land texas
    Please correct me or question me any time. I'm trying less to be a hater and more to be a historian. I will listen to the Cordray interview and if I have to (right or wrong) I'll post part of the interview.
     
  14. Linden Odell Hudson

    Linden Odell Hudson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    sugar land texas
    I just found the tapes, lots of them, I interviewed other members of "The Children" too, such as Jimmy Newhouse (drummer). I spot check listened quickly to Linda Perrons intervew and heard her say (1984) in response to "Francene" that she got a lawyer last week... havent gotten any money". It will take me days to get a listen on everything. While I was there Jimmy Newhouse said the Children were upset too because ZZ Top came out with "Master Of Sparks" and The Children had written one earlier by that name. Newhouse said they were very similar. I'll keep digging. (Hey, this is complicated, a lot of details)
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2021
  15. Linden Odell Hudson

    Linden Odell Hudson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    sugar land texas
    From the book: ZZ Top Bad And Worldwide
    By Deborah Frost (of Rolling Stone)

    Excerpt: But Billy doesn’t like to credit his collaborators. It was the only time that Gibbons’ co-workers outside the band were given part of their due. Steve Perron died shortly after the band (ZZ) recorded “Francine,” and his widow, Linda, says she’s never received royalties. In fact, Billy’s actual contribution to the writing of “Francine” is debatable. The original song was written by Perron and Cordray, who were playing with the Children at the time. Gibbons sat in with Children when Kenny Cordray, their guitar player, was injured in an accident. He fell in love with “Francine.” Gibbons rearranged the song, apparently when he played it with Children. Whether the structural changes were significant enough to claim authorship is questionable. “Francine” remained essentially Steve Perron’ s song. Perron is even mentioned in the song, in the line “If I catch her with Stevie P.” When Children played “Francine,” Perron sang “If I catch her with Billy G.” (end quote)

    I am ready to accept there was credit but I'm sticking with "no royalties" for decades. Fair enough. Please comment.

    I will continue to research this.
     
  16. DTK

    DTK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    Yeah I noticed that too. Of course it doesn't say anything about who was paid and when.
     
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  17. Berlin SO 36

    Berlin SO 36 Forum Resident

    Beyond Eliminator, I'm losing count of how many beloved ZZ Top songs now have a cloud over them: Thunderbird, Chevrolet, Francine, Waiting For The Bus, Arrested For Driving While Blind. How deep does the rabbit hole go?
     
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  18. Linden Odell Hudson

    Linden Odell Hudson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    sugar land texas
    Here is a one minute sound clip of the late Lanier Greig (original ZZ Top keyboardist) talking about how he wrote Waitin For The Bus. He is interviewed in 1984 by Linden Hudson on the phone. Lanier was not credited or paid and it bothered him a lot. I have more interviews than I can handle but here's part of one of them. RIP Lanier.

    Go here: Lanier Greig Talks About Writing Waiting For The Bus June 84 C by Texasman (soundcloud.com)

    Lanier's widow (a very nice lady) sent me an email a few years ago (I have it on file) she said this:
    "We were married for 21 years, have 3 children. He never got over the fact that Billy didn't give him credit or payment. Also Salt Lick and Millers Farm. When someone sent me the link to your story (again) it brought it all back. It was agonizing for him, as I'm sure it is for you at times."
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2021
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  19. Linden Odell Hudson

    Linden Odell Hudson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    sugar land texas
    By Elaine Maguire O’Connor ( Classic Rock ) June 06, 2020
    (excerpt):
    It was similar experiences of being taken advantage of, by bands like Led Zeppelin and even by his employers at Chess Records, that inspired Willie Dixon to found his Blues Heaven foundation, a non-profit organisation that seeks to help musicians and artists obtain what is rightfully theirs and to educ found themselves on the wrong side of a lawsuit in 1991 when Bernard Besman, the publisher of John Lee Hooker, claimed that ZZ Top’s 1973 hit La Grange, written about the Chicken Ranch, a notorious brothel in La Grange, Texas, infringed Boogie Chillen, John Lee Hooker’s 1948 foot-stompin’ classic. (Besman wasn’t the only one annoyed with La Grange – the brothel was forced to shut its doors on account of all the attention the song drew to its illegal activities.)

    (I include this next excerpt from the same article because of the amusing suggestion that the brothel had to close because of a song, this is a historical statement): The Texas boogie merchants (ZZ Top) found themselves on the wrong side of a lawsuit in 1991 when Bernard Besman, the publisher of John Lee Hooker, claimed that ZZ Top’s 1973 hit La Grange, written about the Chicken Ranch, a notorious brothel in La Grange, Texas, infringed Boogie Chillen, John Lee Hooker’s 1948 foot-stompin’ classic. (Besman wasn’t the only one annoyed with La Grange – the brothel was forced to shut its doors on account of all the attention the song drew to its illegal activities.)

    (Another excerpt from that article): Unfortunately for many musicians, ill equipped to deal with the complexities of contracts and legalese, publishers and record companies and the suits behind them often wind up the owners of a song’s copyright instead of the artists themselves.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
  20. Linden Odell Hudson

    Linden Odell Hudson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    sugar land texas
    Who knows, all I can say is, at least have a copyright (it may help)(the problem is musicians and songwriters often have little money, and it costs money to file a proper Library Of Congress copyright, the only one that often sways a judge).
     
  21. MechanicalAnimal6

    MechanicalAnimal6 Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    Wow!!! I am more excited that you worked for Sammy Hagar!!
    That is great! From what time did you work for/with him?
    Did he treat you well?

    He's my #1 favorite singer, love his voice and love his solo music, Montrose, his Van Halen era, everything!!!
    Always wanted to meet him, but sadly will probably never happen.
     
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  22. Linden Odell Hudson

    Linden Odell Hudson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    sugar land texas
    I only worked for him one day on a TV commercial. I didn't tease you with that story, it's just that when I left music I went into doing sound for Film and Television which made me a freelancer, thus tons of one day jobs (or more). Each goes in my resume. Thus lots of famous people. Back to Sammy, he was very polite and casual. He's my age and many of us old guys respect each other to a degree. I just rigged him up for a hidden body mic, we rolled several takes. Before shooting Hagar had a truck load of vintage red cars rolled in and placed in the background. Thanks for asking.

    I had known something about his turmoil with Van Halen, in fighting, the breakup etc.. The music world is whacked.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
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  23. Linden Odell Hudson

    Linden Odell Hudson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    sugar land texas
    Here's another incredible songwriter that I worked with, and this guy is super nice (he's from a northern Houston suburb called Kline). I worked with him several times on commercials to promote Houston.
    See it here: (2) Facebook
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
  24. Linden Odell Hudson

    Linden Odell Hudson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    sugar land texas
    You should at least watch the "Breaking The Band" documentary about Van Halen and Sammy. It attempts to dramatize visually some of the crap that went on in the band. It's no more flawed than other documentaries, not a big budget show, but interesting. It's a series of bands highlighting the downside of band politics and in fighting (made in the UK). The series is on some cable services, but the older shows in the series are on Tubi (Roku).
     
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  25. Rubberpigg

    Rubberpigg Forum Resident

    Those bass riffs on "Thug" pretty much make the song.
    And everyone thinks they were done by Dusty . :D
    Just shows what a bad-ass musician Billy Gibbons is.
     

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