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Vinyl Flat & Groovy Pouch

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by DR.J, Nov 5, 2012.

  1. TLMusic

    TLMusic Musician & record collector

    Thanks for the warning. My Vinyl Flat is due to arrive any day now. I will be extra careful and start with less valuable records.
     
  2. David P. Hill

    David P. Hill Forum Resident

    Location:
    Irving, Tx
    Can someone put up the link on the Vinyl Flat and the Groovy Pouch on where to buy it for the best price?
    This would be greatly appreciated!
     
  3. dasacco

    dasacco Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachussetts
    www.vinylflat.com

    That's the only place it is sold.

    BTW - flattened another record yesterday with it!
     
  4. drbryant

    drbryant Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Based on what I can see, it appears that the "groovy rings" come into direct contact with the grooves of the record. My question is - how can you heat a record long enough to flatten it, but not have it damage the grooves? Are you guys sure you're not inadvertently "flattening" the grooves?
     
    All Down The Line likes this.
  5. dasacco

    dasacco Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachussetts
    My "groovy rings" are the felt type. I did do some damage with long cycles. 3 to 3 and a half hours seems to be a sweet spot for me. Flattens the record to where it is playable and I can't hear any side effects.
     
  6. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    What sort of damage?
     
  7. dasacco

    dasacco Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachussetts
    It made for an uneven surface - almost an orange peel effect. This was a 6 or 7 hour cycle.

    I have VPI Classic turntable, and the arm is particularly sensitive to edge warps. Most times, the clamp makes the record flat enough, especially when it's a dish warp. I do get some where even a small edge warp will make the stylus jump. The vinyl flat, when I use a 3 or 3.5 hour cycle seems to flatten the record enough to make it playable with no audible side effects.

    I don't see it as a miracle machine. I had a couple of severely warped records that were not fixable. But those small edge warps were made to almost disappear for me.
     
    hvbias likes this.
  8. TLMusic

    TLMusic Musician & record collector

    Just completed my first attempt using the Vinyl Flat. The record is a somewhat dished UK pressing. I followed the owner's manual instructions and left the Vinyl Flat in the Groovy Pouch for only one hour. Then it cooled for almost one hour. So far, no change at all to the shape of the record. I guess I'll try the process again for longer (1 1/2 hours, perhaps) and see what happens.
     
  9. deadcoldfish

    deadcoldfish Senior Member

    Location:
    Santa Rosa, CA
    Make sure to use the wingnut to tighten the Vinyl Flat when using the Groovy Pouch, as if you use the black ball thingy, the Pouch won't contact the top, and the heat will be uneven.
     
  10. TLMusic

    TLMusic Musician & record collector

    Yes, the wing nut has been employed.
     
  11. TLMusic

    TLMusic Musician & record collector

    Put the dished LP in the Vinyl Flat/ Groovy Pouch for an additional 1 1/2 hours. No results again! :(

    The record is still dished, without any improvement. Will try again tomorrow.
     
  12. jsternbe

    jsternbe Forum Resident

    Location:
    Knoxville, TN USA

    I've found that it usually takes about 3 to 3.5 hours to see a big difference using the groovy pouch.
     
  13. dasacco

    dasacco Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachussetts
    Me too. See my post #57 above.
     
  14. Preston

    Preston Forum Resident

    Location:
    KCMO Metro USA
    There are two sets of instructions in the set: one for the Groovy Pouch and one for the flattener. The flattener instructions say to put the record in for 1-1.5 hours, but the Groovy Pouch instructions state 3-4 hours. I put a very thin record in for 3.5 (not much of a result) and then five hours and, while it seems to have taken some of the warps out, not all. I need to play the record to see how it sounds. It was a pretty badly warped record, with lots of small, but frequent humps. May be a lost cause.
     
  15. Preston

    Preston Forum Resident

    Location:
    KCMO Metro USA
    I didn't read this thread carefully enough and tightened the wing nut down very tight by hand. Hope I didn't ruin my record ...
     
  16. DR.J

    DR.J Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago Suburb
    I am reasonably certin that tightening the wing nut too tight was a contributing factor leading to a ruined Willie Nelson record (that and way to long in the Groovy Pouch). At this point, I think 3 hours is safe (YMMV) with a barly tight wing nut.
     
  17. Preston

    Preston Forum Resident

    Location:
    KCMO Metro USA
    I am happy to report that tightening the wing nut did not affect my LP. I played it last night and while not all of the visible warps are gone, sonically, the record is much, much improved. I would assume that heat and pressure are necessary to flatten a record, so perhaps tightening the wing nut down snugly is required, or will hasten the flattening? All I can say is that after 3.5 hour and then 5 hour shifts in the groovy pouch, both with the wing nut tightened very snugly, the record is much improved with none of the damage alluded to earlier by others on this thread. The record looks fine to the naked eye too.
     
  18. KALEX

    KALEX Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ohio
    Can anyone speak a little more to the difference(s) between the two types of "Groovy Rings"? It appears that these originally shipped with rigid, smooth, acrylic-looking rings. These are the type shown in the instructional video for the Vinyl Flat. These seem to have now been replaced with soft felt-like rings.

    I read in another thread about an instance of the rigid rings causing an indentation damaging the run-in groove of a record. Now, in this thread, I'm reading about the soft surface creating an "orange peel" distortion to the surface. Which type do you think is least likely to damage a record? Are the rigid rings even available anymore?
     
  19. dasacco

    dasacco Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachussetts

    I can't speak to the smooth style, but I posted about the felt rings and an orange peel effect I got, but that was after a VERY long cycle - maybe 8 hours. I was using a record that was pretty much hopeless to begin with so I figured I'd give it a shot.

    Like I said before, I don't see this as a miracle machine, but every record I had that had slight edge warps came out better, in fact - unplayable became playable. For dish warps my clamp usually flattens the record out to make it playable, so I haven't really seen the need to use it for those much, although I did a couple and they turned out fine.
     
  20. WntrMute2

    WntrMute2 Forum Resident

    I have the hard acrylic type "groovy rings" and have had NO damage even after a full 24 hours in the "groovy pouch". I will continue to use them until I have to replace them. One idea that came to me while reading about the problems with the felt rings, might be to cut apart a good quality record sleeve such as MoFi or Disckeeper ads use the sheets of poly between the felt and the record. Something like parchment paper would also work. It just might eliminate any orange peel effect
     
  21. KALEX

    KALEX Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ohio
    This could work. You might need to keep the edges of the trimmed sleeve away from the Vinyl Flat's outer shell when it heats up, for fear of "melting" the sleeve material.

    Thanks for the replies.
     
  22. Timbrh2001

    Timbrh2001 New Member

    Wow, never heard of this. Gonna have to check it out. Got a couple records that could use some flattening. Anyone have any issues with this product?
     
  23. WntrMute2

    WntrMute2 Forum Resident

    I don't think that any part of the vinyl flat would get hot enough to melt the poly. But what I'd probably do is put a record into a top quality sleeve punch the center hole and trim around the edge with a razor blade or X-acto knife. Could do a new one every few records to ensure cleanliness .
     
  24. Collector Man

    Collector Man Well-Known Member

    Having played around with vinyl for over 50 years, a few thoughts....
    Heating up vinyl records, one should have reservations about one's respiratory health , doing it. Do not get me wrong (I do smoke) so I am not a hypochondiac . I once did a test igniting the edge of a vinyl record. The nasty gases released were absolutlely toxic and choking with just a few whiffs, I was on the floor! So just be mindful and careful of possible vapours given off in any heat straightening process, since we assume -it is all being done indoors in any case.

    One successful result I had, was with - dished at the centre - or 'mushroomed' vinyl. RCA with their notorious "Dynaflex " editions in the early 70's, often came with that problem. There were a 1/3 thinner in thickness than previous RCA editions. This is a slow and cold process - taking maybe 2 months - but no risk whatsoever to the disc . The materials used can be stored and used again. The materials to do so -free.
    (1) Cut a stack of flat even cardboard about 16" by 16"' surely you have good flat cardboard (or boxes laying about).
    Cut circles out of this of around 14inches. Now In the centre draw a circle of about 8 inches and cut circles out as well. When you have a sufficient 'stack', place the dished record in its dust jacket in amongst the cardboard. -with the dome facing up. Most of the record area is now 'suspended in free space'. Place a heavy round object on the record label area - depressing it in an even fashion in the opposite direction - and also past the judged same distance of the offending 'dome' distance. This... to take in the anticpated factor: when the weight is removed , some springback is always going to occur with weight removed. Put the whole 'thing' in a cupboard where it will not be disturbed and just check from time to time , the progress. There will be a time when the weight is removed , when the record "springbacks" to a level flatness . The process is now finished Nor do you ever run the risks of "surface winkle warp ripples or wavy edges". Once cured, I never ever had a treated record ever 're -dome'. after the treatment.

    Based upon : that moulded plastic has some form of shaped memory. What one is attempting to do ..... is making it, 'forget' what it originally was: 'domed' and you want it - permanently flat.
    A very fast and destuctive form test of this theory : get an old plastic toothbrush and start bending it constantly on one direction. It loses its original plastic moulded memory - its shape, permanently
     
  25. bubba-ho-tep

    bubba-ho-tep Forum Resident

    Location:
    Texas
    I got the Vinyl Flat with Groovy Pouch this week. The company owner's wife works less than ten minutes from my house so I was able to save on shipping.

    Anyway, I tried it out this morning on a 200-gram Classic Jutta Hipp record that arrived last summer warped all to hell. I followed the Groovy Pouch instructions and the record is almost completely flat with just the slightest hint of a wobble.

    I will give it a listen this afternoon, but visually it worked like a charm.
     

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