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Using a double Y Cord for mono recordings

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by sberger, Jan 5, 2005.

  1. Joel Shapiro

    Joel Shapiro Forum Resident

  2. Adam9

    Adam9 Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Yes.
    For more convenience you might also connect the double y cord to the "Record" in and out jacks. Then when you want to listen to a mono record, you can just press the "Record" button instead of having to physically connect the cord. Check and see though if this method doesn't narrow the channels in stereo listening. I have a receiver whose circuitry does that. On other amplifiers it works fine.
     
    The FRiNgE likes this.
  3. Grateful Ed

    Grateful Ed Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vermont
    Y cables will work no problem. There's also a forum member here that makes and sells a great mono switch. You can find it in the classifieds.

    Regarding the A-20 - I used to have a pair of Definitive Technology BP-10 speakers, and bought the A-20 to use with them. The A-20 could drive them, but not at super loud volumes (this was also a pretty small room, maybe 10' x 12'). I actually ended up damaging one of the tweeters (from clipping, I assume) and got rid of the speakers and returned the amp.

    Not sure what kind of speakers you are trying to drive or to what level, but you may want to consider the NAD C 316BEE for $379. I was much happier with that amp than I was with the A-20. I would also consider the Yamaha A-S301 for $349 (no experience with that one personally). The Yamaha also has a built-in DAC if that is important to you.

    The Pioneer's power rating is deceiving as it's stated at 50 wpc into 4 ohms (converts to about 25 wpc into 8 ohms). So comparing to the NAD (40 wpc into 8 ohms) and the Yamaha (60 wpc into 8 ohms) you're really looking at about twice the amount of power for not much more money.

    Both the NAD and the Yamaha have lots of good reviews at Crutchfield.com.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
  4. Joel Shapiro

    Joel Shapiro Forum Resident

    Thank you for your replies. I am looking for a $300-ish integrated amp with a phono preamp. The Pioneer has one, the NAD doesn't. I don't listen at high volumes, so the power limitation of the Pioneer is not really a concern, and I don't need or want a DAC inside my amp. I read the NAD was a little bass-heavy. But in fairness, I haven't auditioned either amp in person. The mono switch will only work after the preamp, and if the preamp is integrated, it won't work at all, which is where the double-y cable comes in.
     
    Grateful Ed likes this.
  5. Joel Shapiro

    Joel Shapiro Forum Resident

    Thanks. So I can listen to vinyl even if I select the recorder input?
     
  6. Grateful Ed

    Grateful Ed Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vermont
    The mono switch will work before the preamp, but I'm not sure if that placement is ideal. I didn't realize the A-20 had a phono in - I didn't own a turntable when I had it, so I didn't even notice. Seems like it should work out nicely for you if you have efficient speakers.
     
    Joel Shapiro likes this.
  7. maesyfed

    maesyfed New Member

    Location:
    New Mexico
    I'm interested in the mono switch but a search has not reveled it. Could yo provide a little more direction as to where I can find it?

    Thanks.
     
  8. Adam9

    Adam9 Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
  9. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    I'm going to try both orders of connection and then listen back to the drops in 24/96. After cartridge Y connector and after preamp output.

    From the comments I just read - I should hear a difference in Fidelity comparing these two methods. Previously I have used the Y at cartridge level, as I like the idea of the earliest composite of the two channels possible. I would never do a mono comp of two signals in the digital domain, but that's just me (and a few thousands others).
     
  10. Grateful Ed

    Grateful Ed Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vermont
    Here’s the link to the ongoing classifieds thread:

    http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/stereo-mono-switch.386061/

    Not sure what “styles” are being made these days. There were a few different versions when I ordered mine.

    Just send John (xmas111) a PM, and he’ll get you all squared away. Good dude and ships very quickly!
     
    Alan G likes this.
  11. Mark Hooton

    Mark Hooton New Member

    Location:
    Harvest, AL
    Ok, I juts saw this thread today and I want to clarify something. I did read that the double Y method ONLY works on one MONO LP's. Is this correct?? I am REALLY wanting to get the 2014 Beatles Mono collection, but I read an overview the other day that a good MONO cart is needed. I stumbled upon the double Y threads but if I cant hear the quality of the new MONO from the Beatles then,, even tho the costs is small....
     
  12. Tony Plachy

    Tony Plachy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pleasantville, NY
    Mark, I took a quick look at your profile and I see you are an engineer, so you should understand that by using the double Y you are going to get a square root of 2 improvement in the S/N ratio and it will be audible. I use it and I think it is worth doing if you do not go out and buy a dedicated mono cartridge (which I still may do some day). I also have the Beatles Mono collection and you definitely want to get that!
     
    Mark Hooton likes this.
  13. sberger

    sberger Grumpy(but grateful) geezer Thread Starter

    As the original poster, I would just like to say that I'm pleased that both the this thread, this forum, and myself are all here 13+ years later. Longevity is a wonderful thing.
     
    Joel Shapiro and Steve Hoffman like this.
  14. Easy-E

    Easy-E Forum Resident

    You probably wont hear any difference with the reissued mono Beatles records.

    And you most certainly dont need a mono cart - good or not!

    This summing process is really for real mono records cut with a mono lathe - 50's and 60's monos - not the modern reissues

    As Steve pointed out 14 years ago its good for getting rid of the noise floor that playing mono records with a stereo cart may cause

     
    iloveguitars, marcb and Mark Hooton like this.
  15. Mark Hooton

    Mark Hooton New Member

    Location:
    Harvest, AL
    Tony, thanks for the reply. I just joined yesterday and for a few hours my post was being reviewed; I had no idea until just now that it was accepted. Don't let my being an engineer fool you. Audio and electricity are too doo to me - Black magic. I was just re-reading the review of the Beatles Mono collection that came out a few years ago and in the opening paragraph he plainly said 'you need a mono cart to get the full value.' I bought the blue box set back in college and was wondering if those or even the original MONO Beatles releases (Parlaphone) were as good or even better than 2014 set.

    The Beatles: Which Mono Vinyl Version? - The Audiophile Man
     
  16. Steven

    Steven Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lambertville, NJ
    Do you have a preferred Y adapter? I had a old "monster" brand one lying around and compared combining mono channels with the Y adapter (between the phono preamp and computer audio interface) vs combining the channels in Audacity, and the Y one sounded slightly less detailed. I would to prefer to combine in the analog stage though too.
     
    AnalogJ likes this.
  17. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ CMO (Chief Musical Officer)

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    The Y-adapter in my system focuses, but also dampens the sound. It loses some of the great qualities of my stereo cartridge.
     
  18. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    If your mono record is in exceptional condition and there are no ticks clicks to concern yourself with, this Y connector method is still supposed to lower the noise floor right?

    But if a softer less focused sound is the result (depending on equipment), then I’m not sure it’s always worth it in the long run.
     
  19. Kevin In Choconut Center

    Kevin In Choconut Center Offensive Coordinator

    Location:
    Binghamton, NY
    I know that this thread isn't very active, but I just wanted to say that the Double Y cord method is one I just set up today and it works like a charm.
     
    Joel Shapiro likes this.
  20. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    Well, anytime one uses a "Y" connector it works. Please tell us about this "charm" part if you can. What was the record, and what did you notice?
     
  21. James Bennett

    James Bennett Forum Resident

    thanks for this Steve. Are the Beatles in Mono vinyl from 2014 a true mono signal?
     
  22. Joel Shapiro

    Joel Shapiro Forum Resident

    Yes.
     
    AnalogJ likes this.
  23. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ CMO (Chief Musical Officer)

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    Those are the real deal, the actual mono mixes from the original first generation master tapes, with two exceptions: The tapes for Please, Please Me were close to shot, as I understand it, so a 2nd generation tape was used to master that. And then the same for the Mono Masters 3LP set. In spite of that, the songs on the Mono Masters sound better than pretty much any of the original 45s or EPs I have.
     
  24. qwerty

    qwerty A resident of the SH_Forums.

    First, a comment that hasn't been mentioned yet, but may clarify for some: The double-Y cable to create a mono signal is a workaround if your amp doesn't have a mono switch. If your amp has a mono switch, you are fortunate and don't have to bother with the double-Y.

    Another advantage to reduce the perception of noise (apart from the phase cancellation) is that any pops/clicks that are predominately in one channel will be reduced in intensity, and positioned centrally which will reduce the perception of their intrusiveness (less noticeable than hearing different noise in the two channels of stereo with mono music).

    Y-cable quality: Steve (and others) have suggested the quality of the cable doesn't matter, and in general terms, it has minimal impact as it is only a very short length. I've read a post somewhere where someone upgraded from the RadioShack quality to a noted interconnect manufacturer's version, and an improved sound resulted. As noted, if it's used on the turntable leads before the phono stage, low-capacitance Y-cables would be highly preferred (but best to use the double-Y after the phono stage if possible).

    An audio engineer on another forum was very specific about needing a couple of resistors in the double-Y circuit (similar to the 'Why Not Wye' Rane article, and others). Actual resistor values depend on your amp's characteristics (impedence?). When I researched this on the internet, my conclusions suggested that while the majority of amp's could handle the double-y without any resistors, other amps wouldn't cope (memory suggests they wouldn't play the mono signal). I think Google brings a few internet discussions regarding this.
     
  25. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host

    I have my Technics 78 RPM turntable plugged into my double Y and the double Y plugged into both phono inputs of my Audio Note UK Oto integrated. Perfect L+R mono.

    If I play a 78 that's really noisy, I'll unplug one or the other of the channels to see if one is clean. If it is, I just leave it on the left or right into the Y and into the amp. When finished, I'll plug the other RCA back in.

    It's really simple.. No need to make it harder than this.
     
    MerseyBeatle likes this.

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