Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by bajaed, Jan 1, 2019.
You are right. This simple logic was forgotten when I delved into the details. Thanks mate!
Years ago many integrated amplifiers had two pairs of RCA female connectors on the back.
The first pair was the output of the preamp section and the second pair was the input to the power amp section.
There was a wire jumper in each of these two pairs whech would connect the preamp section with the power amp section.
They looked like thick bare wire like a wire clothes hanger and was shaped like a "U".
If you grabbed the "U" with a pair of pliers and removed them, the preamp section of the integrated would now be separated from the power amp section.
This would allow another external line stage to be fed into and drive the power amp section.
I don't know why we do not see this happening today?
Maybe some integrated amps still do this?
I guess the suppliers want to earn more by pushing general audiophiles (who don’t want to DIY) to buy a separate power amp
Does the CM3 sound the same as the CM2 tone wise?
It can, if the same tubes are used.
I'd say it sounds similar, but improved. The CM3 includes a lot of upgrades from the 2. Your mileage may vary if it's worth the money difference (and dependent on the rest of your rig).
I'm going to do some tube rolling in the near future with some other preamp tubes so I'll post followup impressions later on and how it compares tonally with the stock ones. Cheers.
i've read almost all the posts and i have one question about the CMIII phono input
can i usea a low output MC cartridge as Dyna 20x2L? i've read that somebody had some issues with Dyna XX2. any advice?
yes sir, use the 60db setting, right in the sweet spot for the DV20X2L.
great, thanks for the reply!
So as a brief update I've experimented with using Gold Lion and Mullard 12AU7 (reissues) for the centre 12AU7 position (stock tubes are JJ's). I also spent too much and ordered some NOS Brimar and Radiotechnique 12AU7's to compare (should arrive in a couple weeks). I figured it would be beneficial to compare a couple modern and old tubes in my setup.
I listened for a few days with each tube (10-15 hours each or so) so I think it's too early hours-wise to provide a summative opinion, but still felt each offered noticeable differences.
Mullards: To my ears, these sounded pretty similar to the JJ's, albeit probably slightly darker. A nice, smooth overall sound, but perhaps lacking in clarity.
Gold Lions: These to me sounded noticeably different. I've noticed more clarity and separation in the instruments, although I find them a bit lacking in dynamics/lacking the more "live" sound of the JJ's-this is particularly prevalent in the vocals. However, I have found this issue lessened as I listened more. Verdict's still out on which I prefer of the three, though leaning towards the GL's overall.
Currently, I've taken the Mullards out and put the Gold Lions back in while I wait for the Brimar and Radiotechniques to compare further. If anyone has any suggestions for what to use for the other 2 12AX7 and 12AU7 tubes, I'd love to hear your thoughts!
Here is what I wrote back on page 3:
I'll add another update. I swapped out the JJ's and tried a couple of combinations. I ended up with the following:
Front row: (2) 12AX7 GE Longplates
Backrow: (2) RCA Foil Getter 5963 Black Plates
Center 12AU7: Mazda CIFTE 6189 12AU7WA-H MILITARY TRIPLE MICA
The JJ's are great for the price and provide gobs of detail, but they are just a bit too sterile for me. The combo I have in there now is one of the best I've heard. It really is. Bass is no longer lacking and fills the room nicely. Tight and thumping, just how I like it. Detail in spades with the center Cifte and the supporting cast of Black Plates. Midrange is right where it should be. Anyone with a CM needs to give this combo a serious consideration. Soundstage is always portrayed properly for what the music/recording is attempting to portray. There is nothing syrupy going on here, so if that is your thing (and it is a nice thing) I highly recommend the Cary. The Cronus is dead neutral in a very. very good way. I love this amp.
Great, thanks for the info, Mike! Went ahead and grabbed a pair of the NOS RCA 5963's.
Found a good deal on the GE's so grabbed them well. Both were cheaper than some of the other options I was looking at so not too much damage to the wallet overall (my partner may feel otherwise ). Will provide impressions in a few weeks!
In the meantime, the Gold Lions continue to open up and improve. Looking forward to comparing with the vintage tubes.
Great call on the RCA 5963s — I love them in my CMII. Full tube complement is in my profile.
i was never able to dethrone the RCA 5963s, great tubes in the cmii and iii.
but do try some amperex or made by amperex in the remaining 12ax7 and single 12au7 spots.
Yep - adding the 5963's was some of the best advice you gave me sir!
Unfortunately those Amperex remain outside my price range
Well, the Brimar and Radiotechnique 12Au7's (I plan to use the one I like the best in the centre position) are out for delivery. Still waiting on the rest of the NOS 12AX7/12AU7s. Very much looking forward to comparing and contrasting what works best in the setup.
Now to decide whether to put in the Brimar or Radiotechnique first.
Decided to start with the Brimar. Will give it a few days of listening at minimum for impressions. Thanks again for folks' help on here!
I am interested in your opinion on the Brimar. I am happy w my Mullard but wouldn't mind trying a Brimar.
Are you using older or reissue Mullards? I wasn't enamoured with the reissue, but granted, I don't think I listened to it long enough to give an accurate judgment.
I'd like to see how the Brimar and Radiotechnique sounds once they're accompanied by the other tubes en route as I'm still using the stock JJ's at the moment. That being said, with about a couple hours of listening, I'd say the Brimar sounds closer to the Gold Lions I used, albeit slightly warmer and bassier.
My Mullard is a nice NOS tube.
Your assessment of the new Mullard is about right, even without tons of listening time. Not in the same class as the older gens.
Conezays, I had a very similar experience with my CM3 a few weeks ago. I was listening to a cd at low volume for approximately 30 minutes when the sound cut out and the blue light switched to red. I immediately jumped up and turned the power button off and then heard some weird crackling noises coming out of my left speaker that just faded to silence as the power faded out. I could of swore I smelled something burning briefly, but it quickly dissipated. I think that was just my paranoia. After about 30 minutes, I powered the unit back on for a few minutes, and it operated fine. Later that night I turned the unit back on listening to a cd again, when I started to hear static coming from the right channel. Thinking something had been damaged I turned the power off. Since the static sounded like it may be the tube, I decide to roll the original center 12au7 JJ back into the unit (I had previously replaced it with a Mullard cv4003 some months ago.) I powered the unit up and the static was gone. The unit has operated fine since then. Not sure if turning the power button off when the red light was on fried the center tube, or if the mullard coincidentally happened to fail at that time. I never contacted Rogue about it since it’s been fine since then, although it’s got me curious. Incidentally, I was nowhere near the remote when the sound cut out, and the blue light turned to red. Have you had any recurrence with your unit?
Interesting, thanks for sharing your story. I mentioned the issue at the time to the local store I deal with and the guy thought it was possible that it was one of the tubes going, but to keep an eye on it. Knock on wood, it hasn't happened since either. The stock tubes are from 2018, for what it's worth.
Regarding the 1956 Radiotechnique 12Au7-my gut reaction after a few hours is that these sound the best of the four so far. Just fantastic. Very clear and neutral sounding; not overly warm.
I guess Rogue CM3’s working voltage is too high for some of the old tubes before 60s? Most of the Telefunken tubes do not work well on it. Not sure Mullard CV403.
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