SH Spotlight I'm asked stuff: Favorite mastering engineer, best BOSTON CD, best TRAVELING WILBURYS CD, etc..

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Steve Hoffman, Oct 3, 2018.

  1. Grateful Ed

    Grateful Ed Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vermont
    @Steve Hoffman Why do some of your older CDs with DCC have clipping (i.e Phoebe Snow Gold). Don’t get me wrong, the clipping is inaudible to me and doesn’t affect my enjoyment at all. Sometimes it’s nice to have a disc that’s a little louder anyway. I just notice that your recent work has practically zero clipping. Was this a change in philosophy or is it that newer technology has made it easier to prevent “overs,” or is it something else entirely?
     
  2. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host Thread Starter

    I’m on my phone now but it’s not clipping if it doesn’t actually clip.
     
    doyleDog and uzn007 like this.
  3. Grateful Ed

    Grateful Ed Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vermont
    Fair enough. So there’s no particular reason why some older masterings have many more peaks hitting 0dB compared to more recent work?
     
  4. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host Thread Starter

    0db is what I was aiming for. Later stuff I used a device that regulates the sound to -1/2 db from 0. Makes it a bit easier to master stuff with wide dynamics. It just moves everything down 1/2 a db with dynamics intact.
     
  5. JamesD1957

    JamesD1957 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cypress, Texas
    Steve, please don't take this as a negative question...it's not meant to be. I just wanted to see what your thoughts were. I have your Mamas and Papas - 16 of their greatest hits. Love it. The other day I was listening to it on a little Bose micro speaker (water doesn't hurt it) and when "Creeque Alley" came on, the vocals sounded as if there were miles back in the mix, and were almost gone! I've listened on other much better devices and never heard this effect on any of them. I'm learning that this might be something called antiphase on one of the channels. My question to you is this: Is that what it is, and was it a mistake or an oversight? If so, how does a sound engineer guard against this when it can sound correct on many devices?

    I guess I have too much time on my hands today, but I'd really like to know. And again, no offense is intended....I really love the CD!
     
  6. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host Thread Starter

    The stereo song was mixed out of phase. It sucked then, it will always suck because that's all there is. When played back in mono the vocals vanish. Such is life.
     
    somnar, Dusty Sommers and JediJoker like this.
  7. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Not out of phase on my copy of 16GH, and the vocals don't vanish at all in mono.

    That said, the alignment of the left and right channels is a hair off; when corrected, the high end is slightly better in mono, and the vocals OOPS better. Should make next to no difference in stereo though.
     
  8. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host Thread Starter

    Maybe the guy isn't listening to my version? I mastered the song a few times. First time I flipped the phase so that the vocals were in and the music out. Second time I did it I left it so the music was in and the voices were out. Can't remember which I used for what.. Both dreadful, both when folded to mono give you ****. Either you lose the vocals or the music. Can't win.
     
    somnar and JediJoker like this.
  9. JamesD1957

    JamesD1957 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cypress, Texas
    If "the guy" you're referring to is me, yeah it's your version. MCAD-5701, but also has JVC-436. Liner states "compiled and digitally remastered by Steve Hoffman". I usually listen to this on my main system or in the car. On both, Creeque sounds fine. For outside listening I use a single Bluetooth speaker, and it sounds fine on that as well. But on that little Bose speaker, the vocals are gone. I listen to a LOT of music on that little guy as a shower speaker, and this is the only song that has exhibited that type of anomaly. Again, let me state, that I'm not complaining. I just think it's interesting that this sort of thing can occur, and does it sometimes go unnoticed to an engineer. From what you wrote, I'm guessing it was on the tapes you were given to work with, and there wasn't much you could do about it.
     
  10. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host Thread Starter

    That third M&P album is, to me, the absolute worst stereo album mix in rock and roll history..
     
    joshmichael, somnar and hi_watt like this.
  11. JamesD1957

    JamesD1957 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cypress, Texas
    Are we still talking about "16 of their greatest hits", or are you referring to "Deliver"?

    Edit: I think you're referring to the master tape you were given from that third album....now I think I understand.
     
  12. jacksonwalker

    jacksonwalker Forum Resident

    Only having owned the mono release (The Mamas & The Papas - Deliver ), I do not doubt this.
     
  13. C6H12O6

    C6H12O6 Senior Member

    Location:
    My lab
    Those hit singles had dedicated mono mixes, correct? Are there any anomalies on those mixes?
     
  14. seacliffe301

    seacliffe301 Forum Resident

    OK, I'll bite.
    Which era?, as they are vastly different from each other.

    - Yardbirds
    - Mayall
    - Cream
    - Derek
    - Early 70's solo
    - Late 70's solo
    - 80's to present
     
  15. JohnO

    JohnO Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Um thinking out loud. Could you use one of the up and coming techniques, maybe not quite good enough yet, to separate the vocals out, flip phase on them, and put that back?
     
  16. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host Thread Starter

    Anything can be done now. I'm speaking of what we could do in 1984.
     
    somnar and JediJoker like this.
  17. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    I don't think there's any need to fix anything, other than the aforementioned slight alignment issue. All of the backing is either hard left or hard right; the only thing that *could* be out of phase is the vocals, and those are fine. I just sampled a half dozen versions, and none have the vocals out of phase.
     
  18. JohnO

    JohnO Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Of course, understood. But it could be a hook to sell another greatest hits yet again! Or for streaming going forward forever.
    (I didn't even say it right but I knew what I meant. From a version with correct summed-to-mono vocals, separate vocals out, flip one channel phase, put vocals back.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2020
  19. Chris C

    Chris C Music was my first love and it will be my last!

    Location:
    Ohio
    So Brad, per your recommendation I bought the CD above and I have to say that for the most part, it is a keeper, so thanks!
    There are a few questionable cuts on this CD, especially that nearly eight minute version of "Chattanooga Choo Choo". Just where the heck did he get that version from? It's clearly a slightly later version, but it's not the "Sun Valley Serenade" film version, as I have that version on CD (in STEREO, I might add!), from the Rhino/Turner Classics CD set "In Hollywood".
     
  20. BradOlson

    BradOlson Country/Christian Music Maven

    I do have the hit version of Chattanooga Choo Choo on the Disky Golden Greats which is another decent collection and the version of Don't Sit Under The Apple Tree on Original Glenn Miller-Glenn Miller Story is the hit version.
     
    BeSteVenn likes this.
  21. Brodnation

    Brodnation The Future Never Dies because Tomorrow Never Knows

    Location:
    Canada
    do you feel the modern Beatles remixes are missed opportunities?
     
  22. BradOlson

    BradOlson Country/Christian Music Maven

    I gave my copy of the 1985 Unforgettable Glenn Miller disc to a friend as between the Big Band Era PD disc and the Disky Golden Greats collection I most everything I wanted from Glenn in my collection. I still recommend the 1985 Unforgettable Glenn Miller disc as one of the closest to an untampered RCA collection there is.
     
  23. JamesD1957

    JamesD1957 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cypress, Texas
    This quote references what I'm hearing, but I only hear it on that one piece of hardware. So apparently, it is, shall we say, a known issue, although not an earth shattering one.
     
  24. Stefan

    Stefan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Steve, I have your mastering on MCAD-5701 and it's as you say, the vocals are out of phase. Once I invert the polarity on the left channel, it sounds like a decent mono vocal track in the center with the instruments all hard right. When folded down to mono, it sounds fine, but without the inverted polarity, the vocals indeed disappear.
     
    JamesD1957 likes this.
  25. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host Thread Starter

    Good, add your family vocals instead. Make it a song about something else.. Then post!
     

Share This Page