Hendrix- Cry of Love 2014 vs First Rays 1997*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by fooboo, Oct 12, 2016.

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  1. James5001

    James5001 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    Different strokes and all but I've always thought the tracks closest to Jimi's nod of approval were all pretty much hit out the park.. Give me Ezy Rider over Purple Haze or Foxy Lady anyday of the week and twice on a sundee
     
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  2. DTK

    DTK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    The overdubbed background noises were Jimi's idea; those heard are musicians on the session and friends of his Lonnie Youngblood. Just like on Voodoo Chile. He first tried the idea on Welcome Home, the 1965 Curtis Knight b-side arranged by Jimi.

    The Dylan influence is quite heavy,yes.
     
  3. alchemy

    alchemy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sterling, VA

    I get what your saying but at parties, back in the day, Ezy Rider was not as popular to play as All Along The Watchtower or Voodoo Child (Slight Return).
     
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  4. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    My Friend is really a tremendous track, a somewhat honest revealing statement that perhaps hit pretty close to home for Hendrix. That said, I do not think it was a good choice for inclusion on Cry Of Love, but I understand why Kramer was given the directive to include it from Jeffery/Reprise.
     
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  5. DTK

    DTK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    That's from familiarity, isn't it. 1983 or Highway Chile didn't get them off the couch either, right? Most people only know the "hits" from any act...
     
  6. Sarah S. The Hendrix Nut

    Sarah S. The Hendrix Nut Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Indiana
    That would make a heck of an album.

    I think he might have put studio versions of Machine Gun and Hear My Train A Comin' on a double album.
    He was playing them a lot in 70 and they were important to him.
    Unless the deal with Capitol required some songs to be exclusive to that album, I bet he would have wanted them to be a part of his studio releases at some point.
    Machine Gun, in particular, would have been a priority to him because of the immediate social issues going on in the song.

    Putting together a fourth Jimi Hendrix studio album is like Beatles fans putting together Beatles albums from 70s solo releases. We can come up with a different track list for everybody. And we would all be right...and wrong!
    In truth, I bet if you went up to Jimi the last time he was in the studio and asked him what songs would be on the new album, he couldn't have told you.

    Imagine if psychics could really talk to people who have died?
    If we asked him what would be on First Rays and his answer might be:
    "Wait until you hear what I've recorded on This side!"

    My head would explode!
     
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  7. Sarah S. The Hendrix Nut

    Sarah S. The Hendrix Nut Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Indiana
    Hey Baby (New Rising Sun) would have been right up there with Purple Haze and Foxy Lady, I think.

    Just the tone of it captures something, it just feels right.
    And I think Angel would be one of those essential songs that everybody would know. It would have been a perfect follow up to Little Wing if he could have put it on Electric Ladyland.
     
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  8. Purple Jim

    Purple Jim Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bretagne
    I think "My Friend" worked perfectly as a timeless blues and a Side 1 closer on Cry Of Love, irrespective of its recording date. Another rocking track would have been just too much for the album. "Pali Gap" might have worked in its place but it wasn't at all one of the priority recordings as far as plans for the fourth studio album were concerned (unless it was the mysterious "Electric Lady (slow)" - though I doubt that he would have used that and the "Bolero" prelude to "Hey Baby (New Rising Sun)" ).
     
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  9. alchemy

    alchemy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sterling, VA
    Familiarity, I'd say No. We in the US didn't have ready access to those songs unless you had the UK singles or the UK Smash Hits.

    We had the fall of 1968 Electric Ladyland which was a bit hit and played by my buddies all the time.
    Spring of 1969 we had. The US Smash Hits which was a big also and one stop shopping for those who missed Jimi out of the gate.

    Spring 1970 we had Band Of Gypsys. Not played as much at parties, but Machine Gun got a lot of needle drops. I would be surprised to hear of people who buy used vinyl find a noise at the start of that song.

    Soon followed that spring 1970 the Woodstock Soundtrack and film. The Star Spangled Banner got lots of party plays, especially around the 4th of July.

    That fall before Jimi died, we eagerly got our grubby hands on Historic Performances At The Monterey Pop Festival. That LP seemed to always be on the turntable's especially after Jimi died.

    September 18, 1971 is the day the music died.

    I knew a lot of people back then who had seen Jimi live. Even my wife and she doesn't like rock music, had seen him live. We had the Woodstock Film, where we could see him.

    He is/was a dynamite performer.

    Spring of 1971 we got The Cry Of Love. It is a good / great LP, but it wasn't a real party LP. There are some nice songs there, Angel or Night Bird Flying.

    A lot of people back in 1968-1971 knew Jimi for more than just the hits.

    Can you imagine the desire to hear a new LP coming out for him as opposed to the later desire of crowd finding him later and waiting for the "new re-packaging" of him and hoping to hear better sources for some of our favorite boot sourced songs.

    I love the guy, too bad he left so soon, but boy oh boy what a ride when he was here.
     
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  10. DTK

    DTK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    It would have been hard to top Machine Gun on BOG though? It's just one of those songs that needed a live setting for inspiration to strike, Jimi reacting to, feeling out the audience. Hear My Train and Lover Man are similar; though there are good studio takes the definite versions are live. Maybe there would have been another live album coming up. There's that April 1970 interview where Jimi mentions recording the upcoming gigs, "if Mitch is up for it" (which is a weird comment; why would care what Mitch thought, and not Billy).
     
  11. DTK

    DTK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    That's a very interesting description. I guess it always comes back to the same thing - we have a lot of great work from Jimi's final months, but the final piece of the puzzle is missing; Jimi's final touch, the configuration, pacing and presentation of those songs in album form, in addition to any new material he might have finished. He would have come up with something very impressive no doubt. I always find the fan (and EH's) attempts to compile a "final" album futile; it might be fun but it can't be done.
     
  12. alchemy

    alchemy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sterling, VA
    I believe that playing live brought out that xtra spark in Jimi's playing. I think on those early studio recording Jimi made, he was playing for Chas Chandler and Eddie Kramer, so those recording got that extra "goose".

    Later on Jimi brought his fan crowd into the studio hoping for that extra spark. The trouble is that those people liked everything he did. Hr could have dropped trousers and laid out a load and they would have loved it. Not his best critical audience when he need fresh ears to help him map out his songs.

    I have often wondered if the original idea of a club space, that was a recording studio, if quickly put together, would have better better for Jimi than Electric Ladyland Studios. Electric Ladyland took longer to get together, cost way more than they initial thought.

    If the club concept had come together quickly, Jimi could have done a residency, recorded the shows, cherry pick songs and get some albums out. That would had gotten Reprise and Track off his back and he would haven't as bad mony pressures.

    I think sometimes of Red House. We have basically three versions.
    1) Studio
    2) Live in concert
    3) Later Studio TTG "Ellectric Church" version
    All are great.

    As for the Jimi interview of asking Mitch about recording live gigs, maybe Mitch was more fussy about recording them.
    I believe Billy would have done anything Jimi wanted.

    Back to Sarah's thread, would our reaction to First Rays been different if we first heard high quality mastering?

    This old goat has been around the block way too many times. I'm way to jaded to give even an objective opinion.

    I have made my own version of the last LP and just love to mess around with other people idea of how it should have been conceptualized.

    Sometimes I lament to myself how many songs he left in the can unfinished. Then I think that maybe they were finished, they just lacked that "Jimi Iceing" that we love so much.

    I think Jimi fell in that artist trap, where he felt to be a true artist, he had to do it all. I think of Bob Dylan, some of his best work has many hands on it in the studio, but Dylan's figerprints are all over it. And that is still being an artist.
     
  13. DTK

    DTK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    I think you're absolutely right. Noel Redding told him so, Chas Chandler told him so. They were both axed. While Jimi remained humble and everything despite the lifestyle and adoration, he lost perspective.
     
  14. John Fell

    John Fell Forum Survivor

    Location:
    Undisclosed
    I always thought it was a throwaway track or he would have used it when it was recorded.

    Kramer and Mitchell didn't have it on the original track list for Cry Of Love until they were forced to include it. I would say this indicates they didn't think much of it either.
     
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  15. DTK

    DTK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    As Jimi revisited the track with Kramer in summer '70 he assumedly liked it. There were several interesting/quality tracks that didn't get onto Ladyland anyway.
     
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  16. Sarah S. The Hendrix Nut

    Sarah S. The Hendrix Nut Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Indiana
    True, but there is at least one studio take of Machine Gun, released on Midnight Lightning and some unofficial releases.
    It was recorded before the Fillmore performance. I don't know if he revisited it later or not.
    So, he could have been considering it for a studio release or maybe just working on it for live performances.
     
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  17. John Fell

    John Fell Forum Survivor

    Location:
    Undisclosed
    I know Jimi mentioned it to Kramer but I still think it isn't very good.

    It always struck me as sort of a novelty track with the all partying sounds in the background.

    It reminds me of something like Three Little Bears or Peter/Gunn Catastrophe.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2017
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  18. DTK

    DTK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    Yeah, from September '69, but the song wasn't really complete then. Still an interesting listen; one take has Larry Lee taking all the solos...
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2017
  19. alchemy

    alchemy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sterling, VA
    Question on sound quality and NOT track listings:

    First Rays Of The New Rising Sun (1997)

    1) Does the LP sound better than the CD?

    2) Does the individual tracks on the CD/LP sound OK, but it is the final mastering that mucks it up?

    3) Or is the mastering of each track coupled with the final mastering that mucks up the sound?

    4) Are their any glaring anomalies on the individual tracks that stand out or make them unique or even desirable?
     
  20. 99thfloor

    99thfloor Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    To me the '97 CD and LP sound near identical.
     
  21. Purple Jim

    Purple Jim Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bretagne
    The LP will pop, click and rumble.
     
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  22. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    The fact that Hendrix put "My Friend" aside during the Electric Ladyland period does not necessarily insinuate that he viewed it as a throwaway track. If one is to believe Eddie Kramer, Hendrix remembered the track and wanted to review it during the production of the First Rays project. That doesn't guarantee My Friend would have been revived, but if it were throwaway performance, it is hard to imagine that Hendrix would have shown interest in it two years later, particularly when he had a large amount of new material in development. That said, I have stated many times on this forum that I think the song is out of place on Cry Of Love (and the First Rays Of The New Rising Sun compilation).

    While Kramer was allegedly instructed to replace Room Full Of Mirrors and Dolly Dagger on his initially proposed Cry Of Love sequencing, it isn't as if he was forced to use My Friend in particular. He could have easily included Beginnings, Come Down Hard On Me, or even an edit of Cherokee Mist. It was not about including a throwaway track out of desperation; there was still material available. My Friend clearly was something he felt was a viable track for inclusion, likely based on Hendrix's own alleged interest in the track during the summer of 1970.

    I certainly can respect that you do not dig My Friend, but these two tracks are vastly inferior, with the latter piece being a complete joke. My Friend is a fully-developed, produced track with introspective, revealing lyrical content. I would hardly place it alongside two lightweight tracks that do not contain any serious content or ideas. I guess we will have to agree to disagree!
     
  23. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    I do not claim to be an expert on all underground Hendrix recordings, but I am not convinced fans have heard all the studio attempts at Machine Gun (I haven't looked at McDermott's Ultimate Hendrix in quite some time, but there is probably a way to determine how many sessions were devoted in part to recording the track in the studio). If one listens to the Dagger Burning Desire release, it sounds like Hendrix starts going into Machine Gun after the inspired November 7 instrumental take of Izabella -- it drives be crazy that Experience Hendrix faded it out! A studio attempt at Machine Gun, along with a band version of Midnight Lightning are two omissions from the official catalogue.
     
  24. John Fell

    John Fell Forum Survivor

    Location:
    Undisclosed
    However, Hendrix might have asked Kramer to pull the track to revisit it instead of using it as is. We all are aware of how Hendrix liked to revisit tracks which is part of the reason there are so many different versions of the same songs. He might have reworked it into something totally different but we don't really know.
     
  25. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    While Hendrix mixed Belly Button Window during his last day of mixing at Electric Lady, it seems as though it was still very much in demo form. This was a guy who incessantly overdubbed and remixed songs throughout 1970, so it would have been surprising had he left Belly Button Window so sparse. I suspect this song would have been relegated to the vaults like Three Little Bears, but who knows, maybe it would have made the sequencing of either First Rays or Rainbow Bridge as contrast piece, or wound up as a b-side.
     
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