Best version of REO Speedwagon's "Hi Infidelity"?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by JohnBeas, Sep 10, 2007.

  1. clhboa

    clhboa Forum Resident

    "I Don't Wanna Know" was a great song and the first track that I remember hearing on the radio. Unfortunately it was quickly eclipsed by "Can't Fight This Feeling" which never did much for me.
     
    Todd W. likes this.
  2. jmobrien68

    jmobrien68 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toms River, NJ
    Bruce Hall must be a real playa!

    It is another great REO song, but I was talking in the context of Hi-Infidelity.
     
    Todd W. likes this.
  3. Adular Zech

    Adular Zech Forum Resident

    Japan for Europe version of Hi Infidelity: CDEPC 84700 with matrix 35 8P-4 51A7 +++++

    I have this, and also the original Japan for Japan with the 3/4 black faced disc and the 35 8P-label number.

    The hi-hats and cymbals are so extremely dominant on this mastering imho. They are, however, not "harsh" or "sharp" sounding but "rounded" in the very highest frequencies, similar like cymbals and hi-hats on many other 1980ies mastering often sound. But again, the cymbals and hi hats are so heavily upfront I just can not get myself into linking this.

    Question:

    I wonder if this overload of high frequencies might be due to an issue with pre-emphasis?
    Could it be, that pre-emphasis had been added, but not been indicated correctly in the table of contents on the CDs??

    Both of my CD players do de-emphasize CDs with pre-emphasis correctly, if the TOC of the disc has the "pre-emphasis" setting correctly. They do not de-emphasize CDs when the setting in the TOC is not accordingly. ( I have information on this directly from the development department of the manufacturer of one of my players).

    Even on the later unremastered European version of Hi infidlity (Epic CD 84700, matrix: CDEPC-84700 11 A4 Manufactured by DADC Austria), which has a different mastering and is a little bit louder than the Japan for Europe/ 35 8P-4, the cymbals and hi hats are less dominant and more comfortable.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2016
  4. 32XD Japan1

    32XD Japan1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania USA
    35 8P 4 or 35DP will do just fine for this trebly, glossy, poppy, megazillion seller.
    It's shamelessly commercial, but these guys had been paying their dues in clubs since 1971.
    Some really rippin' guitar solos, but Cronin's weakass vocals just grate on me.
    For evuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuur!
     
  5. Adular Zech

    Adular Zech Forum Resident

    Here are the EAC levels of the European non remastered version (released about 1986/87) Epic CD 84700 Manufactured by DADC Austria:



    Track 1
    REO Speedwagon Hi Infidelity Austria CD 84700\01 Track01.wav

    Spitzenpegel 100.0 %



    Track 2
    Spitzenpegel 100.0 %



    Track 3
    Spitzenpegel 100.0 %



    Track 4
    Spitzenpegel 87.3 %


    Track 5
    Spitzenpegel 97.9 %


    Track 6
    Spitzenpegel 100.0 %


    Track 7
    Spitzenpegel 99.5 %




    Track 8
    Spitzenpegel 92.9 %



    Track 9
    Spitzenpegel 100.0 %



    Track 10
    Spitzenpegel 96.4 %
     
  6. Brian Vollrath

    Brian Vollrath Forum Resident

    Location:
    Corcoran, MN
    If this helps any, read post #57. The 35 8P disc that I have does have the pre-emphasis. Even running de-emphasis I am not happy with the sound of it. I like the EK 36844 better. It is an early US version.
     
    c-eling likes this.
  7. Adular Zech

    Adular Zech Forum Resident

    Thank you, Brian, I missed that post! Do you think that the pre-emphasis is being indicated correctly in the table of contents on the 35 8P-CD, so that the player will run its de-emphasizing programme the way it should? Those early Japanese pressings usually have the indication accordingly, haven't they?

    Anyway, I just listened to a few songs of both the Japan for Europe and the Austrian pressed Epic CD 84700.

    The Japan pressed 35 8P-4 CD has those dominant cymbals and hi hats as mentioned before (really annoying in Keep on loving you), but despite that, it is also sounding a very little bit muddy. The sound is not just as clear and transparent, as I would expect, when the high frequencies are so much upfront. The position of the instruments in the room and even more the position of the singer in the front is not as strictly "defined" as it should be, when the treble is so strong in the sound.

    Could it be, that this slight feel of muddyness is the result of the rapid falling off of the higher frequencies, that you described in your post #57?

    The Austrian mastering has a more solid foundation in the bass department and in the lower mids (the "fundamental notes", if this is the correct word?),. It also delivers more clarity overall, although the treble is slightly less upfront as on the 35 8P. The snare drum is sounding stronger, "heavier". The position of the instruments and most important, of the singer who is standing right in front of the listener, is more strictly defined and can be located easier.

    I would prefer the Austrian CD to the 35 8P. Perhaps the Austrian disc has the same or a similar mastering to the EK 36844 which you prefer.
     
    c-eling likes this.
  8. M2225

    M2225 Caesar's Lab

    Location:
    Helsinki, Finland
    Great that REO gets recognition!
    "Nine Lives" got me in, "High in Fidelity" was there also back in the late 80's, today it's my go to REO album.
    "Riding the Storm out" is a standout version on the 2LP live album though.
     
  9. MikeVielhaber

    MikeVielhaber Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ohio
    Why would you listen to part of one song and make an assessment of the whole album based on that alone? There wasn't a stylistic change between Hi Infidelity and Good Trouble, the latter just didn't have the mega hits on it. I think it's still a pretty good album.
     
  10. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    There wasn't a stylistic change between those two albums but there was somewhat of a shift over the span of the live album through Good Trouble. As I stated, my friend was an old school REO fan and wasn't even particularly taken with Hi Infidelity - he thought the really good stuff was on other albums. When Good Trouble came out he was just fed up with it.

    A lot of people make judgments based on one or two tracks - if you can tell a group has gone in a particular direction and you don't like it, it's an easy conclusion to draw. It may not be right but we aren't talking about mathematics and science here, it's just pop entertainment. For my part, I think that "Keep The Fire Burning" would also have been enough to turn me off from that album had I bought it. It isn't a style change from the previous but it is an extreme quality drop. The very opening guitar melody at the beginning of that song is so unbelievably heavy-handed that it's almost a parody of the sound of Hi Infidelity. And the lyrics, the vocal delivery, it's the sound of treading water, desperately trying to repeat the formula. The only other song I've heard off the album is the title track, and that's a dull piece of dreck as well. For those that enjoy it, good for them. It's all a matter of taste and I'm not really a big REO fan anyway, but the fall after the dizzying height of Hi Infidelity was pretty striking.
     
  11. c-eling

    c-eling Fruit Juice Everywhere

    The Pre tag could be located in the SUB-Q channel, what player are you using?
     
  12. MikeVielhaber

    MikeVielhaber Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ohio
    It's one thing to hear a single and decide you don't want to hear anything else, but to actually have the album and only give it part of one song before giving up? That doesn't seem like something a lot of people would do. It seems a more likely response would be "I wonder if it's all like this or if this is just the single". I guess it depends on how it was acquired though. If you got it for free then you might be more willing to dismiss it. If I spend money on something I'm going to give it a shot.
     
  13. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    Well, I never bought the album so it didn't cost me anything to reach my conclusion. As to my friend, well, I'm just saying what he did. I think a lot of people give up on artists or albums with only a cursory hearing, it comes up a lot when having debates about whether this band or that band or "all new music" or "all rap" or whatever sucks.
     
  14. Adular Zech

    Adular Zech Forum Resident

    I'm afraid, my knowledge on this technological stuff is extremely limited. As far as my information goes, the pre-emphasis setting should be indicated ("tagged") BOTH in the subchannel Q, as you mention, AND in the TOC of the CD.

    If the mastering had been done applying the pre-emphasis EQ curve, this will (always??) be indicated/tagged in the subchannel Q. But most CD players will only run their de-emphasizing process, when the TOC of the CD has the pre tag set accordingly. The players will not extract the data from the subchannel Q in order to find out if the de-emphasis process should be run during playback (there might be only very few players that do this).

    I am using the Rotel RCD 991 and a CD player by German manufacturer T+A . Recently I phoned the customer service of T+A, if their players will run the de-emphasizing process when only the subchannel has the pre tag set (not the TOC). I was told by a man from the development department, that the de-emphasizing process will only be run, if the player detects the pre tag in the TOC.

    Beyond this, I don't have any knowledge on how to find out what is in the TOC or the subchannels of a CD. I am using EAC for ripping, but as you know, the current version of EAC is displaying in the log only the run time information on the tracks from the TOC, not any of the other data from the TOC. :shrug:
     
  15. Brian Vollrath

    Brian Vollrath Forum Resident

    Location:
    Corcoran, MN
    The 35 8P-4 is not my favorite mastering of Hi-Infidelity. Some people on this forum praise it. To each his own I say. I would not even mind the muddy sound of it if the treble wasn't so poor with. The Austrian might be a similar mastering to my EK 36844. Just go with the version that makes you happy. :)
     
  16. honestabe316

    honestabe316 Analog Rebel

    I like my CBS half speed and u.s. mass produced lp...
    I've always been bummed that there isn't an Epic "you can tune a piano but you can't tune a fish lp.....I have a Holland pressing that's pretty decent
     
  17. sa5150

    sa5150 Forum Resident

    I was going back and forth with the Austrian and Japan, The Austrian sounds better to me . Seeking out expensive first japan pressings are not always the best sounding cds . If they ever get to a audio/mobile fidelity of this i'm sure it will be the best if Steve H. would get his hands on it .
     
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  18. Brian Vollrath

    Brian Vollrath Forum Resident

    Location:
    Corcoran, MN
    I gave up with cd versions of this album. The vinyl by Friday Music is how I enjoy listening to this now.
     
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  19. sa5150

    sa5150 Forum Resident

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  20. sa5150

    sa5150 Forum Resident

    Would you be able to attach a smaple ? be really interested in hearing it , I don't have a record player .

    Seems as if all the tracks were mixed differently on this album .
     
  21. 131east23

    131east23 Person of Interest

    Location:
    SoTex
    I own a "MASTERED BY CAPITOL" Wally "You Can Tune A Piano..." on the Epic label.
     
  22. 131east23

    131east23 Person of Interest

    Location:
    SoTex
    This (Kendun pressings) would be the way to go. I have an extremely early 1A/1A Kendun and it is a beautiful sounding LP.
     
    sa5150 likes this.
  23. carlwm

    carlwm Forum Resident

    Location:
    wales
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  24. Brian Vollrath

    Brian Vollrath Forum Resident

    Location:
    Corcoran, MN
    I should be able to post some samples this weekend.
     
    sa5150 likes this.
  25. Brian Vollrath

    Brian Vollrath Forum Resident

    Location:
    Corcoran, MN
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